DER SPIEGEL has obtained notes from a conference call involving EU leaders - including Germany's Friedrich Merz and France's Emmanuel Macron - showing just how little trust Europe has in Washington.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, French President Emmanuel Macron and German Chancellor Friedrich Merz in Kyiv in May.
Foto: Stefan Rousseau / AFP
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European heads of state and government are apparently deeply distrustful of the U.S. when it comes to peace negotiations with Russia and Ukraine. According to notes from a conference call obtained by DER SPIEGEL, German Chancellor Friedrich Merz and French President Emmanuel Macron used drastic words in a conversation with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and several other top European politicians to warn that the U.S. could betray Ukraine and Europe.
"There is a chance that the US will betray Ukraine on territory without clarity on security guarantees," Macron said according to the English language notes of the call that DER SPIEGEL has obtained. There is, he said, "a big danger" for Zelenskyy. Russia's demands for territorial concessions are one of the most delicate points in the negotiations.
According to the notes, Merz said Zelenskyy must be "very careful" in the coming days. "They are playing games with both you and us," Merz apparently said, likely in reference to the two U.S. negotiators Steve Witkoff, a real estate mogul, and Jared Kushner, U.S. President Donald Trump's son-in-law.
These and other statements reproduced in the notes of the conversation illustrate the Europeans' deep distrust of the two Trump confidants. While the Europeans have consistently praised Washington's new peace initiative, the document shows that in addition to Merz and Macron, other participants in the call also do not trust the two U.S. emissaries.
A visit to the Kremlin: U.S. negotiators Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner in Moscow on Tuesday for talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin.
Foto: Alexander Kazakov / AFP
Finnish President Alexander Stubb, who is one of the few Europeans with a good relationship with Trump, also apparently warned against the negotiator duo. "We must not leave Ukraine and Volodymyr alone with these guys," he said at one point in the conversation. NATO Secretary General Mark Rutte, who is also well-regarded by Trump, joined the Finn according to the written record. "I agree with Alexander that we need to protect Volodymyr," Rutte said.
The conference call between the heads of state and government took place on Monday. The Europeans' consultations with Zelenskyy were preceded by talks over the weekend between top Ukrainian security official Rustem Umerov and Trump’s negotiators – Witkoff and Kushner, joined by Secretary of State Marco Rubio – in Florida.
Following those consultations, Rubio noted that "much remains to be done" when it comes to assembling a peace plan to end the war with Russia. Ukrainian President Zelenskyy later emphasized the need for a "constructive dynamic" of the talks in a post on the messaging platform X. He noted that all issues had been discussed openly, with a clear focus on ensuring Ukraine's sovereignty and its national interests – a reference to the disputed territorial issues. Russia is demanding control of the entire Donbas in eastern Ukraine, including those areas under Ukrainian military control. Ukraine has so far strictly rejected this proposal.
Rubio has a reputation for being significantly more critical of Russia and more willing to consider European interests than the other two. However, it remains unclear how Trump will ultimately position himself.
In addition to Macron, Merz, Rutte and Stubb, participants in the confidential European conference call on Monday included Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni, Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen, Norwegian Prime Minister Jonas Gahr Støre, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen and European Council President António Costa.
When reached for comment, several participants confirmed to DER SPIEGEL that the call took place. Two participants in the conversation said the content of the call was accurately reproduced, but did not want to confirm individual quotes since it was a confidential meeting. A spokesperson for Zelenskyy said he did not wish to comment on any of the content.
Paris, however, denied that Macron had spoken of an impending American betrayal. "The president did not express himself in these words," the Élysée Palace said in a statement. The office of the president, however, declined to provide information on how Macron had expressed himself at the meeting according to the French interpretation, citing the confidentiality of the conversations.
Instead, reference was made to a press conference that Macron held jointly with Zelenskyy in Paris on Monday. There, the French president expressed himself rather differently regarding the U.S. officials than he apparently did during the confidential conference call. In his comments to the press, Macron repeatedly emphasized the positive role being played by the U.S. The American mediation, he said, is a "very good thing,” adding that it would exert pressure on Russia.
"No decision about Ukraine and Europe without Ukrainians and without Europeans, no dictated peace over the heads of Ukraine, no weakening or division of the European Union and NATO."
German Chancellor Friedrich Merz
At the Federal Chancellery on Wednesday, officials said they would not comment on "purported scraps of conversation.” Merz, officials said, had commented "extensively and publicly" on the phone call. In doing so, he had emphasized how important the mobilization of frozen Russian assets and trans-Atlantic cooperation were.
Regarding the U.S., Merz said at a joint press conference with Polish Prime Minister Tusk after the call on Monday in Berlin that they were holding "the trans-Atlantic community together as well as we possibly can." At the talks in Geneva between Europeans, the U.S. delegation under the leadership of Secretary of State Rubio and representatives from Ukraine, "initial progress toward a developed peace plan" had been achieved, the officials said, adding that this work would continue. The Europeans' security advisors, they said, are "in constant contact with Ukraine and the United States of America."
In those talks, German officials emphasized, Europe was presenting a clear message: "No decision about Ukraine and Europe without Ukrainians and without Europeans, no dictated peace over the heads of Ukraine, no weakening or division of the European Union and NATO."
Officials also noted that Merz had announced that the EU would use the strongest lever it had at its disposal to finally bring Moscow to the negotiating table. "Together we want to push through in Brussels that we will use the frozen Russian assets," Merz said.
Negotiations in Florida: Ukrainian security chief Rustem Umerov meeting with U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who is sitting between Witkoff and Kushner.
Foto: Chandan Khanna / AFP
This was also discussed in the confidential conference call. Participants repeatedly emphasized that it must be made clear to the U.S. side that the issue of frozen assets is exclusively reserved for the EU. In a guest article for the influential daily Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, published on Wednesday, Merz reiterated that Europe cannot "leave the decision to other, non-European states about what happens to the financial assets of an aggressor that have been lawfully frozen within the jurisdiction of our rule of law and in our own currency."
Witkoff and Kushner traveled to Moscow on Tuesday, where Russian President Vladimir Putin received them together with his foreign policy advisor Yuri Ushakov for what Ushakov said was a five-hour conversation. Following those talks, Ushakov said they had been able to agree on a number of points, and that the president had confirmed his backing to the negotiators. Other elements had been met with criticism, Ushakov said, adding that Putin had "made no secret of our critical and even negative attitude toward a number of proposals." The discussion, though, he said, had been "useful."
In their call on Monday, Merz, Macron and the other heads of government apparently still had hopes of organizing a meeting with Witkoff and Kushner on Wednesday. Merz offered to ask Trump to send Witkoff to Brussels. They also discussed whether heads of state and government ("leaders") should be present at such a meeting and whether it could take place at NATO headquarters or EU premises. Italian Prime Minister Meloni apparently argued against it. Finnish President Stubb, however, spoke in favor. "But now we are out," he reportedly said. "We need to be in."
Witkoff traveled directly back to the U.S. from Moscow on Wednesday; a meeting with the European security advisors on Wednesday did not materialize. However, they met again with Ukrainian chief negotiator Umerov in Brussels on Wednesday, as the government in Kyiv announced, adding that Umerov and Chief of General Staff Andriy Hnatov are now to prepare another meeting with the U.S. envoys in the U.S.
The latest negotiations on a possible agreement had gained momentum after U.S. media reported in mid-November on a secret 28-point U.S. peace plan for Ukraine. In its initial version, this plan went far to accommodate Russian wishes and was reportedly developed with substantial influence from Kirill Dmitriev, the head of the Russian sovereign wealth fund who informally acts as a Kremlin negotiator.
Several of the 28 points triggered consternation in Europe. Public criticism, however, was couched in constructive formulations. Above all, the demand for territorial concessions by Ukraine was not well received, nor were attempts by the U.S. and Russia to decide how to use Russian state assets frozen in Europe. Additional eyebrows were raised by a formulation that appeared to distance the U.S. from NATO. It called for the U.S. to mediate in negotiations between NATO and Russia for a future security order in Europe – as if the U.S. were an outside, uninvolved power.
At the G-20 summit in South Africa, Merz, Macron and British Prime Minister Keir Starmer coordinated a joint response that built on the 28 points but made substantial changes. The security advisors of the so-called E-3 traveled to Geneva with this document, where they met with the Ukrainian delegation as well as the U.S. negotiators.
