Nell Fisher Doesn’t Think ‘Stranger Things’ Could Have Ended Any Other Way
SOURCE:Hollywood Reporter|BY:Jackie Strause
The 14-year-old newcomer to the Netflix mega-hit talks about Holly’s big final season arc and the “perfect” series finale: "When we finally read the script, everyone was in floods of tears."
The second installment of the fifth and final season of Stranger Things began with “The Vanishing of Holly Wheeler,” but those episodes were really the arrival of Nell Fisher.
In a large, familiar ensemble, the 14-year-old British actress has burst on the scene as a driving force of the Netflix phenomenon’s swan song. The little sister of Mike (Finn Wolfhard) and Nancy Wheeler (Natalia Dyer) was essentially a background character for the first four seasons, being played by twins Anniston and Haisley Price. But, surprisingly, creators Ross and Matt Duffer had grander plans for Holly in season five, and so they conducted an extensive search for a new performer to take over the role, eventually landing on Fisher, who starred in the 2023 supernatural horror film Evil Dead Rise.
“It was quite difficult, because she is a preexisting character that the fans know, and so I wanted to both do her justice to the fans but also make her my own character,” Fisher tells The Hollywood Reporter. “I actually met with the Price twins, and we spent a couple hours together and talked about Holly and who they thought she was and who I thought she was. I found that really helpful, to just sort of get a bit of a touchpoint for playing her this season.”
Released on Thanksgiving, Vol. 1 of the final season found Holly bonding with an imaginary friend, Mr. Whatsit, who was really big bad Henry Creel/Vecna (Jamie Campbell Bower) pretending to be a kind Mr. Rogers-type. A Demogorgon then came for Holly, injuring the Wheeler parents and taking the youngest member of the family. Holly initially believes that Mr. Whatsit is her pal, before she is united with Max (Sadie Sink), who notifies her that they’re trapped in Henry’s memories, a place that Holly refers to as “Camazotz.” Vecna soon captures another 12 children from Hawkins, believing them to be the perfect vessels for his plan to merge his world, “the Abyss,” with ours.
Dropped on Christmas, Vol. 2 then saw Holly and Max working their way through Camazotz, trying to find an exit, which eventually leads them to a memory of a young Henry killing a man in self-defense, a moment that forever changed the course of his life. The duo are on the verge of making it back to their physical bodies, and Max gives an emotional pep talk to Holly to help her find the strength to complete the journey. “You saved me, Holly Wheeler,” Max says, before referencing the figurine that Mike gave his sister. “Holly the Heroic is not just a toy. She’s you.” While a previously comatose Max wakes up in Hawkins, Holly’s attempt to escape Vecna’s Pain Tree in the Abyss is unsuccessful, and she’s returned to Henry’s childhood home in his mind. The penultimate episode of then concluded with Henry and all of the kids sitting around a table, holding hands. “It’s time,” he declares, as the group falls under a trance.
**“**Excuse my language, but she is saying, ‘Fuck this shit,’” Fisher told The Hollywood Reporter of Holly’s thinking heading into the epic series finale. “She is so done at the moment — and she’s probably concussed as well. She has not given up hope yet, because I think that’s not the person she is, but she’s definitely frustrated and a little resigned, just because it doesn’t seem to end for her.”
Thankfully, in the newly released New Year’s Eve night series finale, Max, Kali (Linnea Berthelsen) and Eleven (Millie Bobby Brown) interrupt the ritual, and Holly helps lead her classmates away, even getting some good swings in on Henry. She’s then soon reunited with her siblings in the Abyss, where Vecna has been killed by Eleven and Joyce (Winona Ryder). After jumping ahead 18 months, Stranger Things concludes with an emotional final Dungeons & Dragons campaign in the Wheeler basement for the original heroes, before Mike’s crew clears out for Holly, Derek (Jake Connelly) and their pals to take their place.
With the series now officially wrapped, Fisher opens up about her worries in joining Stranger Things so late in its run and why filming the “perfect” last episode was “challenging.”
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What have the last few months been like for you since the final season was released? It was crazy enough getting the role and filming the show, but it’s another thing once it’s out there.
It sounds cliché, but it does feel a bit like a dream. Because this has been in process for so long; it’s been two and a half years since I was cast, which is a ridiculous amount of time. I was in America for all of last year, and everyone worked so hard on this show, so it feels surreal that it’s out. But I’m also really excited because we’re all proud of such an amazing final season.
At the beginning, how much of Holly’s story for season five did the Duffers lay out for you? When did you realize how much of the action was built around her?
During the audition process, I basically got nothing. For my first audition, I got a dummy part under another name. Then I did a Zoom call with the Duffers and they’re like, “You’re actually playing Holly.” I was like, “Cool, but she doesn’t really have much to do in the previous seasons.” Then it was only when I did the table read where I was like, okay, this is pretty heavy stuff. But, towards the end, when I was filming episode eight, I wasn’t given the script, so I’d be filming these scenes not knowing where I’d come from and where I was going, which was quite challenging, because it’s so useful when you know your motivations and what has just happened. So I thought that was quite tricky. But when we finally read the finale script, everyone was in floods of tears.
Sadie Sink with Nell Fisher in Stranger Things 5. Netflix
In our interview with Sadie Sink, she said that when she was called into a chemistry read with you, she said, “Holly, who? The little kid?” That speaks to the previous limited presence of Holly when you stepped in. What was the challenge of taking a character who had been on the periphery for years and putting them front and center for the final season?
One of the interesting things about Holly is that she hasn’t been totally ignorant to all of it; she has sort of seen what’s going wrong in Hawkins. So she isn’t like most other people in the show, who are clueless and then suddenly something happens to them. It feels a bit like an explanation to her for all of these things she’s seen and heard. And she’s probably wondered where her brother and sister have been galavanting off to all these years! But you’re right, it was quite difficult, because she is a preexisting character that the fans know, and so I wanted to both do her justice to the fans but also make her my own character. I actually met with the Price twins, who played Holly in the previous seasons, and we spent a couple hours together and talked about Holly and who they thought she was and who I thought she was. I found that really helpful, to get a bit of a touchpoint for playing her this season.
I was struck by how physical this performance ended up being. Were you ready for that level of physicality, and how did you navigate that as a young actor?
I loved it! Especially that fight scene at the end of episode seven. We did take a long time figuring out how to do that necklace choke, since obviously they can’t really choke me because it’s acting! But it’s also tricky to make it seem realistic when it’s just a necklace. One of the things I found really funny was the regulations around the stunts. When I was doing my falling scene at the start of episode seven, I was in what was called this lollipop harness, which was attached to this metal ball so I could wobble around like that, and that was quite scary. But then I wasn’t allowed to climb more than three steps up a ladder. (Laughs.) So they would have to get my stunt double to climb the ladder into the mineshaft. But I could do all the falling, all the lifting and all the choking!
The relationship between Henry and Holly has been a driving force all season, and that has obviously evolved since they first met. From your perspective, why does Holly initially fall victim to Henry, and how did you want to play what she saw in him and their friendship?
It’s a really interesting story line, because Vecna/Henry/Mr. Whatsit has never appeared to anyone as a friend before; he’s always been this menacing presence. I think that makes him even more sinister. And, for Holly, mainly, she’s scared. A year and a half ago, the world split in four, there was an earthquake and mysterious spores, and I don’t think she has many friends at school; she’s being bullied by Derek and so she then meets this seemingly lovely man with a beautiful voice. (Laughs.) And he is nice and friendly to her, and apparently she’s never heard of grooming!
In episode six, Max and Holly find the memory that Henry has been hiding from, and while Max kind of ignores it, Holly hangs back and watches how Henry is affected by having killed that man. Even with everything that has happened, after witnessing that, do you think that Holly is sympathetic at all towards Henry/Vecna?
One of the things I tried to bring out in Holly was that she’s a very empathetic, trusting person. She befriends this random man, and then, two seconds into meeting Max, she goes into the cave. Obviously sometimes that can be a weakness, but it’s also a big strength of hers. And that shows up when she does see this young Henry and how he beat the man over the head with the rock. I think anyone would feel sympathy towards someone who had to do that, especially at such a young age.
Fisher as Holly Wheeler with Sink as Max in Stranger Things 5. Courtesy of Netflix
How instant was your connection with Sadie, and what was it like going on this journey with her? I’m sure it was also interesting for her, where she was removed from the main group and paired up with a new addition.
Our connection was a bit like that [snaps fingers]. The chemistry read, I was so nervous, but then I met Sadie and she introduced herself and gave me a hug, and I was instantly put at ease. But I found that aspect of it pretty daunting; that she is one of the veteran cast members who is now chucked with someone who she doesn’t know. Sometimes I was a bit frightened, like, what if she doesn’t like me? What if she just wants to get back to the original gang? But we developed a really close relationship and I’m just really lucky to have worked with her. She’s a beautiful person and an amazing actor.
Take me through filming that beautiful scene between Holly and Max at the end of episode six. What were the conversations like with Sadie and director Shawn Levy?
That was one of the first scenes I filmed with Shawn, and it’s definitely one of my heaviest; I’ve got that big monologue. One of the things I love about acting is that you get to experience things you’re not really going to experience in real life. Like, I’m not ever going to be trapped in a memory mindscape with fallen rocks and have to run out to my world, but, through acting, you do get to have these experiences where it feels real.
For the Duffer Brothers, Stranger Things is their baby. When I was watching them, it was almost as if they were in the editing room, seeing it as the audience was. So if one of the sound guys was like, “Oh, we’ve got a problem with this line,” they’d be like, “No, we’ve got that in the other take.” They were piecing it together as they were filming it, which meant it took a bit long, and it was sometimes quite challenging because you’d have to repeat these big, heavy scenes, over and over. But, with Frank [Darabont, writer] and Shawn [Levy, director], it was a lot shorter. With Shawn, I think the most amount of takes we ever did for a single shot was four. And we usually did one take, then the second, and then finished it, which was pretty scary for me, because I’m like, whoa, I was just getting into this. But it’s also pretty confronting as an actor, because you just gotta go and do it. I also learned a lot from that experience of filming the end of episode six. Sadie just makes being alongside her so easy. It’s rare that you find an actor who, in a scene, gives so much that you can respond to.
So many people tried to help Max, but, in the end, it was little Holly Wheeler who saved her. What do you think it is about Holly that enabled her to do what no one else could?
Other than the fact that they’re both in the same place, I think this is the first time Max has felt any connection to who she really is. And even though she’s maybe spoken two words to Holly previously, she knows who she is, she knows that she’s Mike’s sister. One of the most important things she talks about when escaping Henry’s mind is connecting yourself to home, and that is what Holly is doing for her. Even if just a tiny little sliver, she is opening that door and making Max realize that it is actually possible to get out, which was a really lovely dynamic to be able to play with her. Holly is scared and confused, but she’s also looking up to Max because Max is the coolest person to ever exist. But, at the same time, Max is also looking a bit up to Holly in a way of, “You can help me escape.”
Nell Fisher as Holly Wheeler, Eden Stephens as Debbie Miller, Jake Connelly as Derek Turnbow, Alyse Elna Lewis as Wendy, Gianlucca Gazzo as Glenn, Liam Montgomery as Roger, Jamie Campbell Bower as Mr. Whatsit, Calista Craig as Mary, Anthony B. Jenkins as Joshua, Kingston James as Benji, Olive Abercrombie as Valerie and Birdie Borria as Rebecca in Stranger Things 5. Courtesy of Netflix
In the final scene of the penultimate episode, with Henry and the kids holding hands and preparing to enact his plan, the last time we saw Holly before this was her trying to run away and falling down the stairs, and she’s then a bit bloodied up. What would you say is her mind state at this point? Was she resigned to not having a way out?
Excuse my language, but she is saying, “Fuck this shit.” She was in the Wheeler house at the mindscape, then she got chased back by Vecna, and then she literally escaped to her physical body and she got caught by Vecna. She is so done at the moment — and she’s probably concussed as well. She’s not given up hope yet, because I think that’s not the person she is, but she’s definitely frustrated and a little resigned, just because it doesn’t seem to end for her.
I loved seeing Holly get the chance to meet Delightful Derek, and she seemed to not really know what to make of this new him, but it doesn’t matter because she immediately needed him to snap back to Dipshit Derek, the boy who terrorized her. Did you feel like Holly bought the Delightful Derek switch at first? He must have eventually grown on her!
I think she enters her Karen Wheeler phase, she’s just like, “Okay, whatever. What are you doing here, Delightful Derek? Dipshit Derek, let’s go.” So she’s definitely taking charge in these episodes, which is very cool to see, because, at the start, she’s definitely being taken charge off.
What did you think of the ending?
It’s perfect. I’ve been asked if I filmed an alternate ending, because sometimes series do that in case it gets spoiled. But there couldn’t be one — this is the only way the series could have ended.
