[This story contains major spoilers from Pluribus’s season one finale, “La Chica o El Mundo.”]
Pluribus star Karolina Wydra has a surprisingly glass-half-full take on the ominous ending of season one. Her character, Zosia, may have had to honor Carol Sturka’s (Rhea Seehorn) request for an atom bomb, but based on their parting glance, Wydra still senses some indecision from Carol about this manner of escalation. It’s a big swerve when you factor how resistant Carol was to Manousos’ (Carlos-Manuel Vesga) violent approach to undoing the Joining.
“What [the parting glance] was for me is that maybe there’s somehow still a chance [to reconsider]. It’s not goodbye forever; it’s just, ‘Are you sure about whatever it is that you’re doing? Are you sure about the atom bomb? Are you sure about whatever is the next chapter?’” Wydra tells The Hollywood Reporter.
Zosia and Carol’s globe-trotting romance took a dark turn in Big Sky, Montana, when Carol learned that Zosia and the rest of the Joined were nearing completion on another method to turn her into one of them. The revelation recontextualizes the penultimate episode which saw Zosia and Carol consummate their relationship after Zosia and the hive mind rebuilt her once-favorite local diner. Prior to Zosia initiating their first kiss, Carol accused her of manipulation by recreating the beloved haunt that was lost to a fire. She felt they were trying to divert her attention away from restoring the human race. And Seehorn — per her own finale postmortem with THR — now believes that the Joined’s scheme to use Carol’s frozen eggs to belatedly “join” her confirms that episode eight was all an elaborate seduction, even if there were some lovely qualities to it.
For Wydra, she still takes her character at her word when she says that everything the Joined do is out of love and a desire to make Carol happy.
“Vince and I talked about how they’re not manipulative and Zosia is not sinister,” Wydra says. “So it was just about making sure that she’s coming from a place of true honesty and just doing things to be of service to Carol.”
In episode four, Carol tried to persuade Zosia into revealing how to reverse the Joining, and despite having the inability to lie, Zosia stated, “We can’t answer questions like that.” Thus, it’s possible that the Joined’s programming also won’t let them entertain the notion that they’re manipulating someone, something Gilligan acknowledged in another . “Can you think of examples in real life where people are manipulating without knowing it? I think the answer is yes,” Gilligan says. “I don’t know that the Others are any simpler than human beings in real life.”
Below, during a conversation with THR, Wydra also discusses the morsels of backstory that Zosia reveals about her pre-Joining self, as well as how the character was rewritten to be Polish like her.
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Karolina Wydra‘s Zosia and Rhea Seehorn’s Carol Sturka in Pluribus‘ season one finale. Apple TV+
In episode three, Zosia fetched Carol a hand grenade, and in the finale, she ups the ante by fetching her an atomic bomb. What was your first reaction to Carol’s escalation?
Well, what was funny about the grenade is that “we” misunderstood [her sarcasm]. But we didn’t want to risk insulting her, so we wanted to make sure that we provided her with what she wanted just in case. But then we realize, “Oh wait, you’re messing with us.” With the atom bomb, it’s another one of those moments where we will give her whatever she needs and whatever she wants to make sure that she’s happy. So when I read it, I said, “Oh! Where are we going to go with this?” (Laughs.) It was fun.
Do you now have some idea of where it’s going?
No, I don’t. I wish. I love that Vince is going to write the [second] season before we’ll get to know something. Even with season one, I discovered it as it went along with each episode. We didn’t get all of them all at once, so it’s really fun that way. What’s also great is it doesn’t color your performance. What happens in 109, I wonder if knowing that information would’ve somehow seeped into my subconscious and made Zosia be more, “Ooh, I have a secret.” Vince and I talked about how they’re not manipulative and Zosia is not sinister. So it was just about making sure that she’s coming from a place of true honesty and just doing things to make Carol happy and be of service to Carol.
Rhea Seehorn’s Carol Sturka and Karolina Wydra’s Zosia in Pluribus’ season one finale. Apple TV+
The parting glance that Carol and Zosia exchanged as Carol exited the helicopter, were they both basically saying that things are never going to be the same again?
That’s a great interpretation. What it was for me is that maybe there’s somehow still a chance [to reconsider]. “I don’t want to say bye at this moment.” It’s not goodbye forever; it’s just, “Are you sure about whatever it is that you’re doing? Are you sure about the atom bomb? Are you sure about whatever is the next chapter?” I think that’s what it is, and it’s not wanting to let her go because [the Joined] can’t be around Manousos. If she goes back home, they have to separate themselves from her. Zosia and Carol were able to go on this epic journey [around the globe] because they were away from Manousos.
When you tested with Rhea during casting, you had already received the first couple episodes. But did Vince at least tell you ahead of time that romance was in the cards?
I don’t know if we had that conversation when we tested. He didn’t reveal to me where the season was going to go, so I don’t think I knew that. And I don’t know when I found out, to be honest with you. I wonder if I found out when I got the script [for 108], and we had the conversation about their first kiss and what it means. We had a lot of discussions about that episode. Jonny Gomez, who wrote it, had a version of it. Melissa Bernstein. who directed, had a version of it. Rhea and I both had a version of it, and then Vince had a version of it. So it was really interesting to come together and find what that moment means.
I don’t want to say what it means because I want the audience to have their own interpretation of what [108] is and who Zosia is in that episode and what that kiss means. Is that kiss because Zosia is separating a little bit from the collective? Is she finding a little bit of her personality and individuality within the collective? Or is Zosia just really trying to make Carol happy? Is that kiss something that Zosia thinks Carol needs in that moment?
Karolina Wydra’s Zosia and Rhea Seehorn’s Carol Sturka in Pluribus episode eight. Apple TV+
Prior to the kiss, Carol had just called Zosia out for her diner theatrics because she felt like Zosia was trying to manipulate her. So I think Zosia kissed her as a last-ditch effort to distract Carol from not only her quest to save the world, but also from finding out about Zosia’s own scheme to use Carol’s frozen eggs to turn her. So my interpretation of episode eight has evolved now that we know about the collective’s secret plan to “join” Carol.
See, I love that that is your interpretation. That’s exactly why I can’t wait to see the audience reaction to that. If it is that, then Zosia and her world are manipulative and calculated. But are they manipulative? Are they trying to distract Carol? Or is Carol actually trying to distract them from what she’s trying to do? Carol is on her own mission.
They’re both scheming!
(Laughs.)
Carol was conscious of her own plotting, but I don’t think the Joined’s programming allows them to know when they’re manipulating someone. When Zosia volunteers some information about the original Zosia being from Gdańsk, Poland, and loving mango ice cream, I now think that was part of an [unconscious] effort to soften Carol and lull her into this false sense of security.
That’s interesting. Again, I love that that’s your interpretation of it. I love that we got to see a glimpse of who Zosia was in her past life. She came from poverty. She grew up during a time of scarcity, and this guy [with a cart] took pity on [the neighborhood kids] by giving them leftover ice cream. I thought that was such a sweet moment of connection with Carol. There’s a moment where Zosia pauses to think [about her favorite food], and we talked about that moment of pause as Zosia having to separate herself from the collective and go to the memory lane of who Zosia was prior to the Joining. So she has to separate herself from the collective mind to find what that answer is, and then she comes back with that information. I haven’t seen the episode yet, but when we were shooting it, there was a moment of excitement, like, “Oh yeah! I like mango!” So, for me, it came from a pure place of connection and sharing of oneself, but I love that you thought it was very manipulative [in hindsight].
Did Vince and co. rewrite her to be Polish after they cast you?
They did a vast casting across the world. Whoever Vince found, the character would’ve been named after [whatever their background is]. The fake sides had a woman named Anna, and when I got the [first two] scripts, her name was Yara. Then they changed it to Zosia when I got cast. They decided to give her a Polish name, which I thought was pretty cool. I felt very honored.
Lastly, I want to go back to the end of episode four when Zosia goes into cardiac arrest. It’s an especially harrowing moment when you consider that Rhea and a lot of the same crew also experienced a real-life version of that when Bob Odenkirk had to be revived on the Better Call Saul set. The performer who brought Zosia back to life was Rosa Estrada, Saul’s healthy and safety supervisor who saved Bob. So could you feel a heaviness on set that day?
Yeah, for sure. There was melancholy in the air. But was it because the scene brought up their feelings from having gone through that with Bob? I don’t know. I think the melancholy and the heaviness also came from having all these extras chanting, “Please, Carol. Please, Carol.” The world was crying. People were in tears everywhere, creating this very eerie feeling. And then pretending to revive me, as Zosia, had a very particular feeling in the air. So I don’t know if people were experiencing feelings from the past or the scene itself, but I also think they were extremely exhausted from the summer heat.
